For those of you that have had the opportunity to read Job 1 and 2, please feel free to pick one or more of these discussion questions to comment on. Also, if there is something which you would like to comment on that is not one of the questions, please feel free to present it to the group for discussion. Please do not rewrite the question, just put the number of the question and then respond.. okay, here we go....
TITLE: JOB A. In Hebrew the name is boYa! probably from the root meaning "to come back," or "repent," thus describing one who "comes back" or "returns to" God.
1. As posted earlier in the outline, what are your views of the perception of the book of Job, do you feel it is more in a metaphorical form, or in a strictly historical form or somewhere in the middle? Was Job truly a man who walked the earth or simply a story about a man to prove a point? And do you feel it makes a difference in your views of Job, even if he was metaphorical? If you think that this story of Job was somewhat metaphorical, how can you compare the characters in the set up of this story to those in a Greek Mythalogcial story or something of that nature.
2. Depending on your position on question #1, how do you interpret in chapter 1 when Satan presents himself before the Lord in such an arrogant manner? Does it seem like the Lord whom we have come to know in scripture would be one who would view Job's life as something that could be manipulated on a whim to win a bet with the Devil?
3. In Chapter 1:9-10 Satan asks the Lord if he has built a hedge around Job and his household and blessed everything he has. Do you ever feel that the Lord has done that in your life? If so, how do you explain the test of faith that Satan puts Job through and the Lord allows Job to endure? Do you fear a test of faith in your own life?
4. In Chapter 2:9 Job's wife say,"Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!"
Would your reaction to Job have been similar if you were his wife and lost your children and everything you had? Also, often times those we know have had tremendous sorrow in their lives. Can you relate to Job's friends at the end of chapter 2 who come and sit with him for seven days, all the while no one said a word to him because they saw how great his suffering was. Explain.
Sources that were helpful to glean ideas for this discussion were: Bible.org for Women, Bret Wells, Dan Owen
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12 comments:
In reference to question 2, I think it is important to remember that Satan has to receive permission from God to bring about despair in Job's life. I also think it is interesting that God called the shots when it came to how far Satan could torment Job. God always stated that Satan was not allowed to take Job's life. I wonder why Satan didn't just kill Job anyway? Could it be that Satan still feared God and his wrath and therefore did what he was told? Just a thought.
Question 4 : it reminds me of someone at church. She lost her 32 yr old son to a bout of the flu about a month ago. Tragic, obviously unexpected. And she is still full of sadness, if you ask her. Yet, it doesn't affect her worship or the way she cares about others. She mourns and praises at the same time.
Ok, I'm commenting again. In regard to question 3, I definitely feel that the Lord has built a hedge around my life at times. I have not had to go through many hardships in my life yet. I have not had to see someone I was very close to die. I didn't have to go through my parents divorcing, but my husband did. Sometimes I think, " Ok Lord, when are you going to sock it to me, and put me through something I don't think I can handle." I did go through having a really horrible job last year, and I know the Lord was with me during that time. Anyway, I definitely feel that I have had an easy life so far, and it makes me wonder what hardships I will have to face in the future.
Question #3
I don’t ever remember actively fearing a test of faith similar to Job’s. I do, however, remember feeling as though I had never really been through a real test of faith. You know, a serious illness, losing a close loved one, etc -- the kind of stuff that moving testimonies are made of. I grew up in a safe little family, members of a safe little church in a safe little town, attended a safe Christian college, married a safe Christian man…
However, presently I can say that I feel as though I am coming out of a 2 ½ - 3 year period of having my faith tested through all kinds of life experiences and circumstances. In talking to various people about it all, there have been those that have compared this time of my life to the testing of Job. Though I don’t even almost pretend to have had it as bad as Job, I do certainly feel that my faith has been tested! And even after going through it, I don’t know that I can explain the test of faith that Satan puts Job through and the Lord allows Job to endure. I think there are some things that we simply cannot fully understand, and this may be one of them. I do like to think that when bad things happen, it’s not necessarily because God and Satan are up there making bets on what will come of it all. I also like to think that God allows some things to happen because even though it may not appear that way to us at the time, it really is the best thing for us in the long run - because of lessons we learn or unforeseen future circumstances that change the equation. In the midst of trudging trudging through the test itself, though, these thoughts are not necessarily comforting…
The introduction to Job in Eugene Peterson’s The Message says this: “Job does not curse God as his wife suggests he should do, getting rid of the problem by getting rid of God. But neither does Job explain suffering. He does not instruct us in how to live so that we can avoid suffering. Suffering is a mystery, and Job comes to respect the mystery. In the course of facing, questioning, and respecting suffering, Job finds himself in an even larger mystery -- the mystery of God. Perhaps the greatest mystery in suffering is how it can bring a person into the presence of God in a state of worship, full of wonder, love, and praise.”
~Rachel
Question #4
I can’t know how I would react if I was Mrs. Job…I would like to think that I would be right along with Job, riding it out with God in a godly manner, refusing to curse Him. It makes me wonder what else Mrs. Job did besides make that comment. Did she sit with him for a week like his friends did? Did she have a pity-party of her own? Did she just sit in her room eating chocolate, crying and sleeping? My husband, Bret, pointed out to me that the actual word used in 2:9 for “curse” is “barak,” which could mean either to bless or to curse. While it probably doesn’t mean “bless God and die,” it is certainly possible, and raises the question of what exactly is meant. Perhaps she was not literally suggesting that Job curse God and die…maybe she was providing him with something to reject, the kick in the seat of the pants that we all occasionally need: “So what now, are you just gonna sit there in that pile of dirt scratching yourself with trash and feeling sorry for yourself for the rest of your life, or are you gonna get up and do something about it? For all you’re doing now you might as well just ‘curse’ God and die.” It’s food for thought, though I don’t know that it necessarily matters what exactly she meant by it. The point is that cursing God is not what Job did, even though it was, in some form, suggested.
As far as Job’s friends go, I don't know what happened! They started off so well - they traveled to see him when they heard what had happened, and seeing how miserable he was, they sat with him for a week, waiting for Job to break the silence. What wonderful friends! What happened after the silence was broken? I know that during my past few difficult years, there were times that I thought I just might scream if one more person said to me, “God will do something amazing through all of this,” or, “Just think how many others you will be able to help because you are experiencing this.” Everyone had something like that to say, and the truth was that I knew those thing in my heart, but it wasn't making anything any better. There were very few people who would just sit with me as I hurt, or even just listen as I talked without offering useless advice. I wonder if that’s how Job began to feel after listening to his friends’ endless advice.
Back to the introduction of Job in The Message: “The book of Job is not only a witness to the dignity of suffering and God’s presence in our suffering but is also our primary biblical protest against religion that has been reduced to explanations or ‘answers.’ Many of the answers that Job’s so-called friends give him are technically true. But it is the ‘technical’ part that ruins them. They are answers without personal relationship, intellect without intimacy. The answers are slapped onto Job’s ravaged life like labels on a specimen bottle. Job rages against this secularized wisdom that has lost touch with the living realities of God.” Gosh, don’t we all know how that feels?
So how do we help friends who are suffering? We should probably begin by remembering that we can’t really understand the full nature of their problems. We should also remember that our friends may not want our advice. Perhaps what they need is simply a friend who is willing to participate with them in their suffering, as far as we are able - to enter the mystery and help them search for God. Instead of feeling sorry for them and trying to fix their problems, we might could look up to them and learn from them.
~Rachel
Thank you so much to your thoughtful responses to these questions!! It is so great to hear different people's perspectives on these two chapters. I am going to respond to question #2...
I have really been contemplating how the book of Job was written. I think I have come to the conclusion that I feel that is book loosely based on a man named Job, but that they way that is written is in the form of a play that seems quite metaphorical. Thank you Bret Wells! I have been having a struggle with how Satan presents himself to God, and the whole idea of using the life of this righteous man as a type of game with the devil. That is why I steer towards this story being more of a metaphor. Would God do this in our lives? It seems sort of scary to think that he would. I have tried to think of other times in the Bible that Satan has presented himself to God in such a manner. Satan does present himself to Eve, in an arrogant manner in the Garden of Eden, he also presents himself to Jesus when he is being tempted in the desert..but she is merely human... Satan also presents himself to Jesus is of course, God, and it does seem arrogant of Satan, because Jesus could have had him demolished, but he knew that Jesus' had to beat him in the mortal form so that it would hold such significance to mankind. Which brings up another question..why has God not already obliterated Satan anyway, I mean it is not like he could not do it...which leads us to the discussion of our own free will in a world that is not our own. So, to summarize, I think this has to be like those of the Greek Myths in its presentation of the story of Job...the whole "powers of God and Satan" verses that of man. What is most interesting to think about is that God gave Satan his power to begin with, before he fell from heaven...since this is a discussion, I think I will have to leave it at that...or else I will just have to keep going!
Carrie
OOPS!!!In reference to the last response when I was talking about Jesus being in the human form...I did not mean to put "she"..that was a typo...sorry, I do think He is a HE! This is a women's bible study, but I am not taking it that far! Ha!!
Carrie
I would like to touch on Job 2:9. I have never really studied Job before, and I must say reading this made me extremely sad. As I thought about everything I had in my life, my husband, my children, my family, the wordly things we have worked so hard for. Example, shelter, food, transportation, clothes, shoes. I can not even begin to imagine that in one single day all of this could be gone.
I must be totally honest here, I can see myself saying the exact same thing as Job's wife. I know that is the wrong answer, but it is the somewhat human answer. How many of us when something bad happens look up, and say why me God? And that is with the littlest of things compared to what happened in chapters 1 & 2.
Although Rachel brought up a great point of view, please see WellsBros. posting for reference. About how Job's wife may have had an alternative motive with these words she spoke. Good Stuff!!
1: I would like to think that Job was human b/c it's so inspiring to know that a person could withstand something so unimaginable. On the same note, for his sake, I hope he is metaphorical. :)
2/3: You're right, it's scary to think God would intentionally allow such horrible things to happen to someone, just to prove a point. And as submissive as we try to be as Christians, it's so hard to imagine Satan being so arrogant towards him. But he is so sneaky.
4: No matter what, I don't think I could ever say, "Curse God and die" for fear of being struck by lightening (ha!) and b/c I believe God throws curves to test our faith.
i have heard Job compared to a "whodunit story" because the reader knows from the beginning that Job didn't sin but he spends the entire book asking, "What did I do wrong?" Suffering is harder when we don't have a reason or cause. Part of finding some relief is accepting that we won't be able to make sense out of these situations in our lives. We become bogged down in self pity and trying to place blame. Once we are able to accept the situation, we begin to prioritize and focus on the objectives of the lesson God is trying to lead us to. Peter tells us not to be surprised by testings so I guess we have plenty of warnings but I think a big part of the lesson is how we accept what happens. That's Hard!
Cindy
Carrie - thank you for starting this blog! With the busy work-week, I often miss out on my bible study. But this new way gives me an easy chance to catch up on Christian inspiration during my lunch-hour!
In regard to question #4, what stood out to me when I read the passage was Job's response to his wife: "Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?" This made me think about how easy it is sometimes to be thankful for the blessings but struggle with the troubles, rather than being steadfast and faithful no matter what comes our way. It reminded me of the lyrics to "Blessed Be Your Name," which is a song that speaks to me every time we sing it.
Ok, I have to throw my 2 cents in on this one. Back in 2002 my grandmother died and I have always been close to mother's side of the family and loosing Mamaw was the first time in my life where I lost someone that I was close to but no matter how close I was to her...I was always closer to my grandfather who in turn died in March of 2003. I tell you this because when my grandmother died as hard as that was I knew that I was not strong enough to deal with my grandfathers death anytime in the near future. I know in this study we are studying the book of Job but I don't think we can discuss trials and things of that nature that we may face without looking to what scripture teaches us on this matter. What comes to mind immediately is James Chapter 1:
1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
4And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
6But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.
7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,
8being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
9But the brother of humble circumstances is to glory in his high position;
10and the rich man is to glory in his humiliation, because like flowering grass he will pass away.
11For the sun rises with a scorching wind and withers the grass; and its flower falls off and the beauty of its appearance is destroyed; so too the rich man in the midst of his pursuits will fade away.
12 Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
13Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
18In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.
19This you know, my beloved brethren But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger;
20for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.
21Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror;
24for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
25But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.
26If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.
27Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
**** ok i know that's lengthy but like I said I wanted to share my 2 cents on the matter, hope it helps
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