Elihu's Speeches

Brief Outline:

Job 32-33

Elihu's first speech

God instructs man through affliction. Here, Elihu is introduced. All throughout the book of Job, Job has been desiring a "moderator". Elihu is just that. Elihu's speeches prepare the way for the Lord speech to come.

Job 34

Elihu's Second Speech

Elihu's point was that God's justices was vindicated against what Job has been insinuating. Job had not been able to understand the purpose of his suffering.

Job 35

Elihu's Third Speech

Job had wrong reasoning. It does not matter with God if a man is righteous or wicked in relation to worldly suffering.

Job 36-37

Fourth Speech

This speech basically states that God always has a purpose when godly people are afflicted. He does so to lift us out of our pride and to show us his disciplining grace and love. Elihu wanted Job to take note of this and to notice God's power and pride in nature. Elihu concludes by stressing man's sinful frailty in God's presence.

Discussion for this week:

1. In Job 35:6-
Elihu says,

"If you sin, how does that affect him? If your sins are many, what does that do to him? If you are righteous, what do you give to him, or what does he receive from your hand? Your wickedness affects only a man like yourself, and your righteousness only the sons of men."

Question:

Have you ever thought about how your sin affects God? How there is nothing that He receives from our hand, accept for our love and obedience, when we choose to give it to Him? I had never really thought about that. Our wickedness only affects ourselves and those around us. Please discuss how this verse may or may not have impacted you. Have you really thought about this before?

2. In Elihu's fourth speech, it talks about how God uses affliction that we may be experiencing to lift us out of our pride, and to show us His discipline and love.. One of the most powerful verses to me in the bible is..

"...for My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."

2 Corinthians 12:9

Can you think of a time you might like to share with us, when God has used your affliction, to show how His power is made perfect in your weakness?

Please comment!! Have a great week! Please read Job 38-42 for next week!!

Sources: The New Unger's Bible Handbook revised by Gary N. Larson, My old trusty NIV Bible!

Job 27-31

Catching UP.......

Sorry it has been so long since my last post! I was out of town, and this week, I have been having Internet problems...so please forgive me for not getting to this earlier! I know people are busy, and I see that many people have logged on through my live traffic feed, but your comments on discussion are greatly appreciated. Also, we only have a few weeks left in Job, so please comment on another book you may be interested in for our next study! Obviously we can only do one at a time, but I would love suggestions! For next week, please read Job 32-37!

Job 27-31 Job's Closing words of vindication

Overview:
Job 27-28
Job clung to righteousness, contrasting himself with wicked people, he described the treasures of the earth, and the higher wealth of wisdom, which is known by God. Job outlined his past blessings and honor. In chapter 28, the magnificent poem about wisdom, breaks the continuity, and Job's final answer to Zophar, completing the cycle chapters 29-31.

Job 29-31
Job looks back on the good days of his prosperity when he was respected and honored. He contrasts this with his present state in Chapter 30. In Chapter 31, he once more insists that his past life has been blameless. He sets himself sort of up on a pedestal here. It is part of the argument of the book that this was the kind of conduct expected from a man who claimed to be a good God-fearing Jew, and it is an ideal of which any society might be proud. It shows more-over how deep and lasting an effect the moral force of the teaching of the prophets had on the life of Israel.

Discussion for this week:

These stanza's stood out to me this week:

Job 28:12-13

"But where can wisdom be found? Where does understanding dwell? Man does not comprehend its worth; it cannot be found in the land of the living."

Job 28: 20-28

"Where then does wisdom come from? Where does understanding dwell? It is hidden from the eyes of every living thing, concealed even from the birds of the air. Destruction and Death say,'Only a rumor has reached our ears,' God understands the way to it and he alone knows where it dwells, for He views the ends of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens. When he established the force of the wind and measured out the waters, when he made a decree for the rain and a path for the thunderstorm, then he looked at wisdom and appraised it; he confirmed it and tested it. And He said to man, "The fear of the Lord --that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding."

Wow, what an amazing passage!

Here is the discussion:

What do you think about the whole idea of the fact that mortal life can never fulfill wisdom and that only in death will true wisdom be revealed to us? This passage says, of Death and Destruction, only a rumor of wisdom has reached their ears. I have to say that this thought kind of freaks me out a little. It seems like if only death reveals these things to us, we are sort of going through the motions of an alter existence...it is almost like this life is like a blinded type of deadness, and in our death, through Christs death, we will be alive. Do you fear death, and how does this passage make you feel better or worse about it?

Resources for this week: Hebrew-Greek Keyword Translation Bible, The New Unger's Bible Handbook Revised by Gary N. Larson, William Neal's Pocket Bible Commentary

Job 22-26

Third Cycle of Speeches (22:1-26:14)
The debate is now winding down. Note (1) that this final cycle is a third the length of the first one, (2) that there is no speech from Zophar, and (3) how much repetition there is of former arguments.
● Chapter 22 – Note Eliphaz’s false accusations against Job (vv. 6-9; cf. 31:13-23), assumed to be true because Eliphaz’s theology demands it; so after instructing Job on God’s ways once more (22:12-20), he again calls him to repentance (vv. 21-30).
● Chapters 23-24 – Job again expresses a desire to plead his case before God (23:1-7), indicating both hesitant confidence (vv.8-12) and trembling fear (vv. 13-17). In any case, Eliphaz is simply wrong. The world is full of injustice (24:1-17); may the wicked be cursed (24:18-25).
● Chapter 25 – Bildad utters the counselors’ final word: God is too great for Job to question him.
● Chapter 26 – Job agrees about God’s majesty, but (in what follows) not the implications they draw from it.

Discussion for this week:

These two stanzas stood out to me in this weeks reading. They impacted me in a way. Do you have any thoughts on how they affect you, or was there any stanza or verse that stood out to you that you would like to share?

Job 24:22-23 "But God drags away the mighty by his power; though they become established, they have no assurance of life, He may let them rest in a feeling of security, but His eyes are on their ways."

Job 26:6 "Death is naked before God; Destruction lies uncovered."

Job 15-21 Second Cycle of Speeches

Brief Outline on this Reading:



Second Cycle of Speeches (15:1-21:34)
In this second round of speeches, the three accusers all play variations on a single theme – the present torment and final fate of the wicked. Job’s responses show faint glimpses of hope, which are dashed by the others, so he points out finally that the wicked do not always suffer.
● Chapter 15 – Eliphaz appeals once more to their traditional wisdom: It is the wicked who suffer torment, so Job must be wicked, and his own mouth condemns him automatically when he questions his suffering.
● Chapters 16-17 – Job agrees that his affliction is from God, but he is also at a loss as to why. His only hope lies in a heavenly advocate (16:18-21).
● Chapter 18 – Bildad can hardly take it (vv.1-4), so he picks up from Eliphaz by pointing out the terrible fate of the wicked – like Job! – and thus God will not hear him (vv. 5-21).
● Chapter 19 – Job complains about his friends (vv. 1-6) and about God’s treating him as an enemy (vv. 7-12) with the result that his alienation is total (vv. 13-20). His plea for help is accompanied by another note of hope (vv. 21-27) before warning his friends (vv. 28-29).
● Chapter 20 – Zophar rejects Job’s note of hope, repeating the refrain about the fate of evildoers.
● Chapter 21 – Job now calls into question his counselors’ insistence on God’s speedy retribution of the wicked (vv. 1-6), 34).

Discussion for this week:

1. In Job 16:2-4, after Eliphaz has basically said that Job must be wicked, and that is the reason for his suffering, Job says,

"I have heard many things like these; miserable comforter are you all! Will your long-winded speeches never end? What ails you that you keep on arguing? I also could speak like you, if you were in my place; I could make fine speeches against you and shake my head at you."

How many times have we as Christians either gotten the same type of advice as Eliphaz has given Job, or we have given it? I am embarrassed to say I know that I am probably guilty of getting that kind of advice, and then maybe giving it as well. I think we often learn to judge others in a pious way when we have been judged in the same way. What constructive purpose does is serve to give others pious speeches about what they have done wrong to deserve what is happening to them? It seems like if we are not the one getting this kind of advice, we tend to be the one giving it. How can we as Christians break this pattern? Please give examples or thoughts on this.

I think I will leave the discussion at that for this week. This really emphasises what we are taking from this passage this week...But please feel free to bring up anything else that really struck you.. Here is a passage that I absolutely love in this reading. It brings back reminders of many times singing the Messiah, but is so beautifully written, Job 19:25-27

"I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God. I myself will see him with my own eyes--I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!"

(An interesting thought, but it seems like Job was pretty sure that death did not bring about the end of his existence...that is pretty reassuring, considering he lived way before Jesus. I think it is pretty much in the New Testament when people start preaching on who should enter heaven and who do not enter heaven, and Revelation talks about the whole judgement....okay, so I guess this can be more discussion..I am so impressed that Job instinctively believed these things.)

Okay, I guess I rambled a little! Please share some comments!

CB

Source: Bret Wells speeches document notes, Hebrew-Greek Keyword Bible,

Job 4-14 First Cycle of Speeches

Brief Outline of Job 4-14

First Cycle of Speeches (4:1-14:22)
Job’s lament launches the first cycle of speeches, in which each friend speaks in turn and in turn hears Job’s response. Note that Eliphaz’s speech is the longest of the three, while Job’s speeches increase in length as Bildad’s and Zophar’s get shorter.
● Chapters 4-5 – Eliphaz begins the dialogue with an eloquent recital of the basic theology of “the wise.” Not yet accusatory (see 4:1-6), this speech prepares the way for the rest. Divine retribution is certain (4:7-11), since no one is innocent before God (4:12-21). Job should therefore appeal to God for help (5:1-16); he is further urged to recognize his calamity as correction and to seek God for his benefits (5:17-26) – thus siding with Satan! Note Eliphaz’s supreme confidence in his own wisdom (5:27).
● Chapters 6-7 – Job responds by defending his opening lament (6:1-13), accusing his friends of being no comfort to him (vv. 14-23), protesting his innocence (vs. 24-30), and finally appealing directly to God for the comfort lacking in his friends (7:1-21), concluding again with “whys.”
● Chapter 8 – Bildad takes up Eliphaz’s position, arguing that God is just, and thus calamity is punishment for wrongdoing (vv. 1-7), basing it on traditional teaching (vv.8-10) and the laws of nature (vv. 11-22). Note how verse 20 states his basic position: Good and evil are clearly defined by what happens to people.
● Chapters 9-10 – Job’s friends are no help, so Job agonizes over bringing his case before God, because he is unsure of its outcome (ch. 9); thus he bursts into lament (ch. 10). Note in passing that much of 9:1-10) anticipates chapters 38-39.
● Chapter 11 – The truth that Zophar finally speaks about forgiveness (vv. 13-20) unfortunately follows from his assumption that Job’s calamity must be the result of Job’s sin (vv. 1-12). How harsh the “righteous” can sometimes be!
● Chapters 12-14 – Job has been stung (12:1-3); to follow their advice (which continuously sides with Satan) means to cash in his own integrity. So after defending his skill in wisdom equal to theirs (12:4-13:12), he mulls over bringing a legal case before God, which is his only hope (13:13-14:22), but again it is an agonizing alternative.

Discussion Questions for this week:

1. Which of Job's friend's in this cycle of speeches do you most relate with in your view how you would counsel a friend who was dealing with serious suffering? Do not give the "right" answer, I want to know what the angle is that you truly feel you take with people. How do you see these things in your life and others? Here is a quick overview the positions that Job's friends took.

Eliphaz: Had supreme confidence in his own wisdom which was reflected in his speech.

Bildad: Viewed that God is just and that suffering is punishment for wrongdoing.

Zophar: Emphasises legalism. He presumes to know what God will do in any given case, why He will do it, and what His thoughts about it are.

2. In Job 9:33, the NIV reads, "If only there were someone to arbitrate between us, to lay his hand upon us both,"
The footnote in my bible says, "someone to arbitrate" connotes a mediator
and is so translated in the Septuagint by the same word Paul uses in I Ti. 2:5. Job longs for someone who understands both God and man and who will draw them together. Ultimately, this is what Christ did. But Job desires some man in his own time who has "eyes of flesh" and who can sympathaze with his human weakness. This longing increases as the book progresses.
Do you ever long for someone to "arbitrate" between you and God? It is easy to forget that this is what Christ did for us. But do you ever wonder if Christ went through the exact same things you have gone through, or possibly someone else you know is going through? Please Explain.

Sources of use in this discussion:
Bret Wells Speech Discussion Notes , NIV footnotes, Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible

Job 3 : Job's Lament

The book of Job is referred to as one of the Bible's beautiful books of poetry. The picture that Job paints in chapter three with his words truly lets us see the workings of his heart in a way that we can relate to today. I thought this was a great chapter for some reflection. Which also brings to mind a few things that I thought would be a good discussion for this week. Please pick one or more question to comment on.

1. In Job 3:20-22 it says," Why is light given to those in misery, and life to the bitter of soul, to those who long for death that does not come, who search for it more than for hidden treasure who are filled with gladness and rejoice when they reach the grave?"

It is as if Job is wanting to know why he has to continue on? Why is it that life is so hard and he has to hold up his head and keep living it? Can you relate to what Job is feeling in this passage? Have you known people that seem to get thrown one curve ball after another and continue to pick themselves up and deal with it while others of us sit around in happiness? Do you know of any people that have truly convicted you with their response to their own suffering?

2. In Job 3:23 it says, "Why is life given to a man whose way is hidden, whom God has hedged in? "

If you feel that God has "hedged you in" do you feel like your way is hidden? To me that was a very powerful statement. Do you feel like you are just going through the motions in life, or do you feel like you are fervently seeking the plan that God has for you and that you can see it before you? Please explain your thoughts on this.

3. In Job 3:25-26 a footnote in my Bible states that , "It seems to be apparent that prior to his suffering, Job realized the possibility of trouble coming into his life. He had not taken God's blessings for granted..."

Where are you in this walk with God? Do you think that we as Christians today take God's blessings for granted. In chapter 1, Job worried for his children's souls and frequently brought them for purification before the Lord. Do we do that in prayer for our children and family today, even when things are going really well for us or do we wait until something happens that forces us to be humbled before him? Please discuss your thoughts on this.

Discussion: Job 1 and 2

For those of you that have had the opportunity to read Job 1 and 2, please feel free to pick one or more of these discussion questions to comment on. Also, if there is something which you would like to comment on that is not one of the questions, please feel free to present it to the group for discussion. Please do not rewrite the question, just put the number of the question and then respond.. okay, here we go....


TITLE: JOB A. In Hebrew the name is boYa! probably from the root meaning "to come back," or "repent," thus describing one who "comes back" or "returns to" God.

1. As posted earlier in the outline, what are your views of the perception of the book of Job, do you feel it is more in a metaphorical form, or in a strictly historical form or somewhere in the middle? Was Job truly a man who walked the earth or simply a story about a man to prove a point? And do you feel it makes a difference in your views of Job, even if he was metaphorical? If you think that this story of Job was somewhat metaphorical, how can you compare the characters in the set up of this story to those in a Greek Mythalogcial story or something of that nature.

2. Depending on your position on question #1, how do you interpret in chapter 1 when Satan presents himself before the Lord in such an arrogant manner? Does it seem like the Lord whom we have come to know in scripture would be one who would view Job's life as something that could be manipulated on a whim to win a bet with the Devil?

3. In Chapter 1:9-10 Satan asks the Lord if he has built a hedge around Job and his household and blessed everything he has. Do you ever feel that the Lord has done that in your life? If so, how do you explain the test of faith that Satan puts Job through and the Lord allows Job to endure? Do you fear a test of faith in your own life?

4. In Chapter 2:9 Job's wife say,"Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!"
Would your reaction to Job have been similar if you were his wife and lost your children and everything you had? Also, often times those we know have had tremendous sorrow in their lives. Can you relate to Job's friends at the end of chapter 2 who come and sit with him for seven days, all the while no one said a word to him because they saw how great his suffering was. Explain.

Sources that were helpful to glean ideas for this discussion were: Bible.org for Women, Bret Wells, Dan Owen